General Chat Transcript
Room Name: Vtrender
Date and Time: December 30, 2014 01:12:57[08:53] r m : Good Morning folks!
[08:53] r m : http://vtrender.com/levels-and-plan-for-30th-dec/
[08:53] r m : http://vtrender.com/premium/orderflow-charts-and-notes-291214/
[08:53] r m : NF Hypo1 above 8307➜8352 SL 8287 Hypo2 below 8304➜8287 SL 8326 JAN Future levels
[08:53] r m : BNF Hypo1 above 18795➜18870 SL 18720 Hypo2 below 18787➜18666➜18620 SL 18792 JAN Future levels
[08:58] Keshav : morning all
[09:02] Sharad : GM all
[09:04] Kathir : good morning RM and all friends
[09:06] Rav : GM to you All
[09:08] r m : Hi Kathir 🙂
[09:08] RK : GM all
[09:08] r m : @Kathir, I thought you will be back only in 2015 🙂
[09:09] Kathir : I am in banglore now 🙂
[09:10] r m : aha!
[09:11] RK : Kathir, on the way to Goa? 🙂
[09:12] r m : taking a circuitous root 🙂
[09:12] Kathir : no setld in blore
[09:13] r m : blr is a fine place to settle in!
[09:13] Kathir : mine is temp seltment..one two days left
[09:13] Kathir : only
[09:13] r m : lol
[09:14] RK : gr8..south people never dream about moving away from home 🙂
[09:15] r m : it happens when you have your home in the best place to begin with 🙂
[09:16] RK : true
[09:18] r m : BNF sprinting off the block!
[09:21] r m : low of the range broken http://screencast.com/t/avrIqfZOmXPM
[09:24] Keshav : @rk i think its much to do with the weather , i guess
[09:26] Rav : PE is stron right from 8000-8300
[09:26] Rav : strong
[09:29] Keshav : yesterdays vwap is going to important zone today
[09:31] r m : yesterday FII bought Index Futures and used the highs for buying Index PE and selling cash equity!
[09:31] r m : http://screencast.com/t/0FK6KEND
[09:49] Keshav : nice cluster loop near vwap
[09:57] Rav : 8000-8100-8200-8300 pcr: 3.6-7.5-3.6-1.2
[09:59] Keshav : closed yesterdays short in bnf
[10:02] Rav : yes.
[10:02] Rav : yesterday bnf was sbu and nf was lbu
[10:03] Keshav : okay
[10:04] Kathir : sbu ibu?
[10:05] Keshav : option terms short build up and long build up
[10:06] Kathir : ok thanks
[10:07] Rav : Open InterestOpen interest refers to the total number of derivative contracts, like futures and options, that have not been settled in the immediately previous time period for a specific underlying security. A large open interest indicates more activity and liquidity for the contract.For each buyer of a futures contract there must be a seller. From the time the buyer or seller opens the contract until the counter-party closes it, that contract is considered ‘open’.Monitoring the Open Interest will help us to predict the underlying assets or stocks price movement. Open Interest will reflect the traders psychology. Open Interest will give pulse of Stocks Long Build Up, Long Position Unwinding, Short Build Up and Short Covering.Long Build UpThe underlying asset will be consider as creating Long Build Up when both Price & Open Interest Goes up. When price goes up with Open Interest, there is expectation from derivative segment for the stock to go up further.Long UnwindingThe underlying ass
[10:08] Rav : soory file was not transferred but contents
[10:08] Rav : sorry
[10:08] r m : no problem, got good reading material 🙂
[10:10] Kathir : thanks rav
[10:10] Rav : it is aplicable for f&o
[10:10] Kathir : what if price down but OI up?
[10:11] Kathir : shorts bulding?
[10:11] Rav : short buildup
[10:11] Rav : bnf is short covering now
[10:12] Kathir : price up but OI down ?
[10:12] Kathir : short covering?
[10:14] RK : yes short covering
[10:14] Kathir : ok
[10:15] r m : covering yesterday’s shorts, just like Keshav did!
[10:15] Keshav : looking at previous vwap now
[10:15] r m : BNF is stuck at PDL
[10:15] Keshav : if we go down again with out touching it. planning to short again
[10:19] Rav : 18300-18800 bull bear fight since both pe and ce are written. dangerous zone
[10:19] Keshav : hmm
[10:34] Keshav : selling nf
[10:39] Keshav : good delta since morning
[10:39] Keshav : just 12 on the negative scale
[10:47] Rav : cnxit buying is up
[10:56] Kathir : this week i guess volumes will be low due to new yesr eve holidays
[10:58] Kathir : vwap band NF shrinking
[10:59] Rav : those who invested heavily will not celebrate new year
[10:59] r m : 🙂
[11:00] r m : @Kathir, vwap bands shrinking in BNF too
[11:00] Rav : FII s have HFT Platform nowadys to trigger anywhere anytime while celebrating
[11:07] Kathir : @rm bnf not visible ..where it is
[11:08] Kathir : @rav big investers at present in huge prfits so they will enjoy this year happily 🙂
[11:08] Keshav : @rav how vix affects index movements?
[11:09] r m : actually europe and US closed and half the rest of the world too, that will dry up volumes here too
[11:09] Kathir : mmm
[11:09] Kathir : @rm whsts the key to bring index window in zerodha
[11:10] r m : ctrl + I
[11:10] Kathir : thats it thanks
[11:13] r m : @Kathir, BNF vwap bands shrinking here! http://screencast.com/t/ZjoryezD8vqj
[11:14] Kathir : 18674-18574 just 100
[11:20] Kathir : @rm ge will be back 🙂
[11:20] Kathir : 2 hrs break
[11:20] Kathir : plas grant permission
[11:20] r m : @Keshv, actually VIX is calculated from the volatiliy of index options – so it is not the vix which influences index but options! But it is simpler to observe vix than option chain
[11:20] r m : @Kathir, sure, just 2 hours 🙂
[11:20] Kathir : ok sir thanks 🙂
[11:21] r m : welcome, have your Sapad 🙂
[11:21] Kathir : ok 🙂
[11:22] r m : http://www.nseindia.com/content/indices/white_paper_IndiaVIX.pdf
[11:23] Keshav : does increase in volatitility of option pricing denote implied fear in the underlying?
[11:24] r m : yes, writers will demand more premium when they perceive higher risk
[11:24] r m : when there is a big news premiums will jump and so will vix
[11:25] Rav : more the vix,more the fear and premium
[11:25] r m : yep
[11:25] Keshav : oh
[11:25] r m : that is why it is called fear index 🙂
[11:28] Rav : It is to be read with PCR too to find out where smart money is flowing in and out due to fear or volatility
[11:28] Rav : Smart Money Ratio: SMR= india vix/pcr
[11:29] Keshav : oh
[11:30] Rav : 11-12 is lack of fear and above 14 to 20,huge .Above 20, Meltdown
[11:32] Keshav : so a higher pcr will denote that less smart money is buying in that strike right??
[11:33] r m : for meltup also it goes high, VIX touched 56 when MMS won in 2009, writers were caught with pants down 😀
[11:34] Keshav : oh
[11:34] Rav : PCR more than 1 means up and less than 1 means down
[11:35] Rav : earlier it was termed high beta eith 5-10-20% freeze but after f&o introduction contained and limited with VIX Futures also
[11:39] Rav : if there is no volatility, options will become untouchable in exchange
[11:46] RK : http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/todays-paper/tp-investmentworld/what-the-putcall-ratio-signals/article1113606.ece
[11:47] r m : Thanks RK
[11:47] RK : Welcome
[11:47] r m : However, history suggests that options traders lose money most of the times. Their collective judgement of market direction is usually wrong. 🙂
[11:48] r m : from that post only!
[11:48] r m : they should have written ‘option buyers’ instead of ‘option traders’
[11:48] RK : that entire article become null and void when you read last para 🙂
[11:49] r m : lol
[11:49] Rav : option writers are FIIs and professionals
[11:49] r m : yes
[11:50] Keshav : okay finally some movement
[11:50] RK : yes..fixed kind of income but no limitation on the investment capital 🙂
[11:50] r m : Keshav’s shorts have made nifty go down!
[11:50] RK : we always think vice versa..limited capital but unlimited income 🙂
[11:50] Keshav : no no i had it in almost 2 hours back i guess
[11:50] Keshav : @rm should check with janak
[11:50] r m : yes Keshav, you are a patient bird!
[11:51] Keshav : i trade small
[11:51] Rav : timing is important
[11:51] r m : @RK, actually the returns on investments are much lower for very high capital!
[11:52] Keshav : to avoid emotions
[11:52] Keshav : yes that what i have realised
[11:52] RK : true RM..but what I mean to say, you will have atlease some income when you play with no barrier for investment
[11:52] Rav : writing need full margin like nifty future but buying needs only premium
[11:52] r m : yes
[11:52] Keshav : wealth managers happy even if they clock 25%
[11:53] r m : true
[11:54] r m : Biggies have huge portfolios, normally that is used as a margin for shorting options, double income, one from PF another from premium decay!
[11:54] Rav : welath management guys first take care of them and then customers!
[11:54] r m : lol
[11:54] r m : huge salaries are taken by the management
[11:54] Rav : perks and cars too
[11:55] r m : then they invest your PF in their own half brained schemes!
[11:55] RK : admin cost are huge with indian fund houses
[11:56] r m : ICICIDirect will invest half your funds in ICICI mutual funds specially new launchs since entry fee permitted only on NFOs
[12:09] Rav : Change in OI 19000ce 30725 17000 pe 63050
[12:10] Rav : bnf is up as per option
[12:27] Keshav : bnf fighting nf
[12:44] r m : 8286 was the pullback high on 26th http://screencast.com/t/z2FQdv7lO
[12:47] Keshav : closing short and goinig long
[12:48] r m : ok
[12:48] Rav : bnf long at 18632
[12:49] Rav : 12:10 Rav : bnf is up as per option
[13:03] Keshav : lunch time
[13:03] r m : BNF above IBH
[13:05] Keshav : yesterdays vwap the key reference
[13:06] r m : BNF is above tha
[13:06] r m : *that
[13:07] Keshav : huge volumes came in last 3 minutes
[13:07] Keshav : bnf
[13:07] Keshav : todays highest
[13:07] r m : yes
[13:07] Keshav : hopefully its buyers
[13:07] Keshav : @rm is there a way to find it
[13:08] Keshav : ??
[13:08] Keshav : whether they are buyers or sellers at the top?
[13:08] Rav : 18770 booked
[13:09] r m : @Keshav, 18743.65 17675 vol at ask
[13:09] r m : but these things are not accurate
[13:09] r m : @Rav, congrats, great spotting on BNF
[13:10] Keshav : oh
[13:10] Keshav : good trade @rav
[13:10] Rav : in ami,we can see volume for each minute and with given afl,we can detect in candle itself
[13:11] r m : NF was showing 40900 vol @ 8283 at bid, yet that was the lowest point!
[13:11] r m : OK Rav, are you using GDFL data?
[13:11] Rav : bnf last 4 candles of 5 min were with heavy volume
[13:12] Rav : yes
[13:12] r m : Thanks
[13:12] Rav : 8400ce buying happening
[13:13] Keshav : @rav how to indentify if its buying or selling
[13:13] Keshav : ?
[13:13] Keshav : 8400 ce context
[13:14] r m : OI and price both going up I guess
[13:14] Keshav : oh
[13:17] r m : BNF knocking at Hypo1 entry level
[13:19] Rav : OTM CE is at 2 disgits and less vulnerable for volatility
[13:22] Keshav : i think this small rally only bank participated
[13:22] Keshav : book long nf
[13:22] Keshav : no position
[13:27] Keshav : is there way to hide your position in the orderbook?
[13:28] Keshav : show it as a small quantity?
[13:29] r m : yes, you can show minimum 10% as disclosed quantity
[13:30] Keshav : how to do that? i am having a pay per trade brokerage. if i say buy 250 units of option
[13:30] Keshav : it gets split into 3-4 trades
[13:31] Keshav : i would like to get it cleared as a single order
[13:31] Keshav : when i look at the order book there is enough on the ask side though
[13:32] r m : what we see in the order book is not instantaneou and market orders are not seen in order book
[13:33] Keshav : okay
[13:33] r m : get a pay per order deal rather than pay per trade 🙂
[13:34] Keshav : any brokerage offering pay per order?
[13:34] r m : Zerodha
[13:35] Keshav : so irrespective of the no of trades they charge only on the order size once?
[13:36] r m : yeah, they charge by order number which remains the same
[13:36] r m : they have some other criteria for bracket orders – I did not read that
[13:36] Keshav : okay
[13:49] Keshav : price structure wise we need to break 8250 spot in nifty
[13:49] Keshav : for any further upthrust
[13:49] Keshav : till then weakness could be expected
[13:53] r m : bnf wants to explore beyond 795 now
[14:01] Rav : bnf sd3 band at 90 degrees
[14:14] Keshav : lunch done
[14:19] Rav : ready but nifty is keepping me in
[14:20] Keshav : short bnf
[14:33] Keshav : short covered
[14:38] Keshav : @rav
[14:38] Keshav : 8200 pcr is 3.7?
[14:46] Keshav : i guess everyones gone for lunch
[14:46] Rav : yes
[14:47] Keshav : trading room sjo silent
[14:47] r m : silence of the lambs 🙂
[14:48] Keshav : this could work as a title for a book or a movie
[14:48] r m : it is a title of a famous movie
[14:48] Keshav : oh
[14:48] Keshav : i ll check it out then
[14:48] Rav : keshav…is that excel sheet sent working?
[14:48] Rav : won several oscar awards
[14:49] Keshav : i am trying it for the first time
[14:49] r m : Anthony Hopkings
[14:49] Keshav : oh
[14:49] r m : Hopkins
[14:49] Keshav : @rav could you confirm the pcr @ 8200
[14:49] Rav : 3.7
[14:50] Keshav : okay then its updating roo
[14:50] Keshav : too
[14:50] Keshav : @ rm i will check that movie
[14:50] Keshav : and if i catch hold of a good 1080p print i ll mail you the link too
[14:50] Rav : 3.7 8.8 3.7 1.2 for 8000-8300
[14:50] r m : sure, you will get an excellent torrent I am sure
[14:51] Rav : FIIs bought protective puts so that our local operators can not pull down nifty it seems
[14:52] r m : @Keshav http://kickass.so/the-silence-of-the-lambs-1991-1080p-bdrip-x264-1-50gb-yify-t6580563.html
[14:52] Keshav : added to my downloads thanks rm
[14:52] r m : they bought yesterday and on Friday too
[14:53] r m : welcome Keshav
[14:54] Rav : Change in OI 8200 ce419275 8400pe 601200
[14:54] Rav : nifty up
[14:55] Rav : 8300 ce and 8200 pe
[14:55] Rav : is correct
[14:55] Kathir : @rm back
[14:55] Kathir : late 🙂
[14:55] Keshav : seems like one more move up left in nifty
[14:56] Kathir : traffic in blore is terrific..hate driving here
[14:56] Keshav : from the swing high we are riding on a paratllel sideway channel
[14:56] Keshav : yes too bad. small city
[14:56] Rav : this is the time for exchange and fiis to be active besides brokers
[14:57] Kathir : @rav volume today very ow
[14:57] Keshav : @rav exchange>
[14:57] Keshav : ?
[14:57] Keshav : but i love food in bangalore
[14:57] Keshav : so nice
[14:58] Keshav : everything so fresh
[14:58] Kathir : food mixed all state food available
[14:58] Keshav : like mumbai
[14:58] Kathir : ok
[14:58] Keshav : i find south indian best in bangalore
[14:59] r m : yes
[15:00] Keshav : in chennai supplies are not that fresh
[15:00] r m : I used to eat all the time when in South!
[15:01] r m : North Indian food good at home only, what the cook in restaurants is not the local north indian food but a greasy overcooked version
[15:01] Keshav : true
[15:02] Keshav : north indian food is highly commercialised
[15:02] r m : yeah, what is surprising is that youngsters like that and are getting fat on that fried stuff!
[15:03] Keshav : too much of experimentation and evolution
[15:03] r m : Obesity in young folks was unknown when I was in College
[15:03] r m : most of us were wafer thin 😀
[15:03] Keshav : these days that what i pray god
[15:04] Keshav : dont become obese
[15:04] Keshav : its because of the sugar not much on oil
[15:04] Keshav : those days i suppose people took less sugar in their food
[15:04] Keshav : and most of the food was cooked fresh
[15:05] Keshav : when i stayed outside in delhi . i feeded only on outside food and packed foods
[15:05] r m : no, we hogged sweats but plenty of physical work was a must for remaining alive 🙂
[15:05] r m : sweets
[15:05] Keshav : something went wrong and i had indigestion for months
[15:06] Keshav : then i came back home
[15:06] r m : everyone used to walk or bicycle to college, some 1000 calories gone there!
[15:06] Keshav : learnt a bit of cooking and started cooking myself
[15:06] r m : good
[15:06] Keshav : understandable
[15:06] Keshav : wish we could go back that time
[15:06] r m : cooking good food is very simple, just takes some time
[15:06] Keshav : back to bicycles
[15:07] Keshav : i just hate traffic
[15:07] r m : @Keshav, since Metro introduced in Delhi, many folks are walking the short distances from metro stn to home/office
[15:07] Keshav : love public transport
[15:08] r m : we need reserve bicycle tracks
[15:08] Keshav : yes before that chandni chowk and old delhi used to be chaotic
[15:08] Keshav : yes
[15:08] r m : hope Modi’s smart cities have those tracks
[15:09] Keshav : hmm
[15:10] Keshav : i would be happy if they have a entrepreneurship incubation centre in every university if not college
[15:11] r m : yes, much more needed than campus recruitmets
[15:11] Keshav : i and some of my friends we started a online business. we closed with net loss of 2 lakhs
[15:12] Keshav : we were totally clueless with some of regulations and registration
[15:12] Keshav : and documentation work was crazy
[15:12] Keshav : everytime we had a pay someone to get the work done
[15:12] r m : yes
[15:13] r m : if you are a businessman every government employee is out to fleece you
[15:13] r m : they think business is a money priniting machine 😀
[15:13] Keshav : although we guys had really good education we couldnt even get through an application without the help of those document guy sitting in the office gate
[15:14] r m : lol
[15:14] Keshav : long nf positional
[15:15] r m : no sellers found below PDL on second visit too
[15:15] r m : BNF kept auctioning above SL 18720 of Hypo1
[15:16] Keshav : might work for another 40 points in nf
[15:16] r m : Govt documentation assumes that every citizen is a thief and a crook and onus to prove otherwise is on him 🙂
[15:17] r m : just reverse of our penal system!
[15:21] Rav : 8400ce 80 is now at 91
[15:23] Keshav : seems like we would close at high in bnf
[15:27] Keshav : tomorrow morning we gonna need some quick hands
[15:29] Rav : 8400ce booked at 94 with nf 8328
[15:30] r m : great!
[15:30] Rav : bye all
[15:30] Keshav : the markets closed
[15:31] r m : Thanks and bye folks! Shai is likely to be totally busy celebrating tomorrow and day after, may not get hypo too!
[15:31] Keshav : good day
[15:31] Keshav : oh okay
[15:31] Keshav : bye all
Date and Time: December 30, 2014 01:12:57[08:53] r m : Good Morning folks!
[08:53] r m : http://vtrender.com/levels-and-plan-for-30th-dec/
[08:53] r m : http://vtrender.com/premium/orderflow-charts-and-notes-291214/
[08:53] r m : NF Hypo1 above 8307➜8352 SL 8287 Hypo2 below 8304➜8287 SL 8326 JAN Future levels
[08:53] r m : BNF Hypo1 above 18795➜18870 SL 18720 Hypo2 below 18787➜18666➜18620 SL 18792 JAN Future levels
[08:58] Keshav : morning all
[09:02] Sharad : GM all
[09:04] Kathir : good morning RM and all friends
[09:06] Rav : GM to you All
[09:08] r m : Hi Kathir 🙂
[09:08] RK : GM all
[09:08] r m : @Kathir, I thought you will be back only in 2015 🙂
[09:09] Kathir : I am in banglore now 🙂
[09:10] r m : aha!
[09:11] RK : Kathir, on the way to Goa? 🙂
[09:12] r m : taking a circuitous root 🙂
[09:12] Kathir : no setld in blore
[09:13] r m : blr is a fine place to settle in!
[09:13] Kathir : mine is temp seltment..one two days left
[09:13] Kathir : only
[09:13] r m : lol
[09:14] RK : gr8..south people never dream about moving away from home 🙂
[09:15] r m : it happens when you have your home in the best place to begin with 🙂
[09:16] RK : true
[09:18] r m : BNF sprinting off the block!
[09:21] r m : low of the range broken http://screencast.com/t/avrIqfZOmXPM
[09:24] Keshav : @rk i think its much to do with the weather , i guess
[09:26] Rav : PE is stron right from 8000-8300
[09:26] Rav : strong
[09:29] Keshav : yesterdays vwap is going to important zone today
[09:31] r m : yesterday FII bought Index Futures and used the highs for buying Index PE and selling cash equity!
[09:31] r m : http://screencast.com/t/0FK6KEND
[09:49] Keshav : nice cluster loop near vwap
[09:57] Rav : 8000-8100-8200-8300 pcr: 3.6-7.5-3.6-1.2
[09:59] Keshav : closed yesterdays short in bnf
[10:02] Rav : yes.
[10:02] Rav : yesterday bnf was sbu and nf was lbu
[10:03] Keshav : okay
[10:04] Kathir : sbu ibu?
[10:05] Keshav : option terms short build up and long build up
[10:06] Kathir : ok thanks
[10:07] Rav : Open InterestOpen interest refers to the total number of derivative contracts, like futures and options, that have not been settled in the immediately previous time period for a specific underlying security. A large open interest indicates more activity and liquidity for the contract.For each buyer of a futures contract there must be a seller. From the time the buyer or seller opens the contract until the counter-party closes it, that contract is considered ‘open’.Monitoring the Open Interest will help us to predict the underlying assets or stocks price movement. Open Interest will reflect the traders psychology. Open Interest will give pulse of Stocks Long Build Up, Long Position Unwinding, Short Build Up and Short Covering.Long Build UpThe underlying asset will be consider as creating Long Build Up when both Price & Open Interest Goes up. When price goes up with Open Interest, there is expectation from derivative segment for the stock to go up further.Long UnwindingThe underlying ass
[10:08] Rav : soory file was not transferred but contents
[10:08] Rav : sorry
[10:08] r m : no problem, got good reading material 🙂
[10:10] Kathir : thanks rav
[10:10] Rav : it is aplicable for f&o
[10:10] Kathir : what if price down but OI up?
[10:11] Kathir : shorts bulding?
[10:11] Rav : short buildup
[10:11] Rav : bnf is short covering now
[10:12] Kathir : price up but OI down ?
[10:12] Kathir : short covering?
[10:14] RK : yes short covering
[10:14] Kathir : ok
[10:15] r m : covering yesterday’s shorts, just like Keshav did!
[10:15] Keshav : looking at previous vwap now
[10:15] r m : BNF is stuck at PDL
[10:15] Keshav : if we go down again with out touching it. planning to short again
[10:19] Rav : 18300-18800 bull bear fight since both pe and ce are written. dangerous zone
[10:19] Keshav : hmm
[10:34] Keshav : selling nf
[10:39] Keshav : good delta since morning
[10:39] Keshav : just 12 on the negative scale
[10:47] Rav : cnxit buying is up
[10:56] Kathir : this week i guess volumes will be low due to new yesr eve holidays
[10:58] Kathir : vwap band NF shrinking
[10:59] Rav : those who invested heavily will not celebrate new year
[10:59] r m : 🙂
[11:00] r m : @Kathir, vwap bands shrinking in BNF too
[11:00] Rav : FII s have HFT Platform nowadys to trigger anywhere anytime while celebrating
[11:07] Kathir : @rm bnf not visible ..where it is
[11:08] Kathir : @rav big investers at present in huge prfits so they will enjoy this year happily 🙂
[11:08] Keshav : @rav how vix affects index movements?
[11:09] r m : actually europe and US closed and half the rest of the world too, that will dry up volumes here too
[11:09] Kathir : mmm
[11:09] Kathir : @rm whsts the key to bring index window in zerodha
[11:10] r m : ctrl + I
[11:10] Kathir : thats it thanks
[11:13] r m : @Kathir, BNF vwap bands shrinking here! http://screencast.com/t/ZjoryezD8vqj
[11:14] Kathir : 18674-18574 just 100
[11:20] Kathir : @rm ge will be back 🙂
[11:20] Kathir : 2 hrs break
[11:20] Kathir : plas grant permission
[11:20] r m : @Keshv, actually VIX is calculated from the volatiliy of index options – so it is not the vix which influences index but options! But it is simpler to observe vix than option chain
[11:20] r m : @Kathir, sure, just 2 hours 🙂
[11:20] Kathir : ok sir thanks 🙂
[11:21] r m : welcome, have your Sapad 🙂
[11:21] Kathir : ok 🙂
[11:22] r m : http://www.nseindia.com/content/indices/white_paper_IndiaVIX.pdf
[11:23] Keshav : does increase in volatitility of option pricing denote implied fear in the underlying?
[11:24] r m : yes, writers will demand more premium when they perceive higher risk
[11:24] r m : when there is a big news premiums will jump and so will vix
[11:25] Rav : more the vix,more the fear and premium
[11:25] r m : yep
[11:25] Keshav : oh
[11:25] r m : that is why it is called fear index 🙂
[11:28] Rav : It is to be read with PCR too to find out where smart money is flowing in and out due to fear or volatility
[11:28] Rav : Smart Money Ratio: SMR= india vix/pcr
[11:29] Keshav : oh
[11:30] Rav : 11-12 is lack of fear and above 14 to 20,huge .Above 20, Meltdown
[11:32] Keshav : so a higher pcr will denote that less smart money is buying in that strike right??
[11:33] r m : for meltup also it goes high, VIX touched 56 when MMS won in 2009, writers were caught with pants down 😀
[11:34] Keshav : oh
[11:34] Rav : PCR more than 1 means up and less than 1 means down
[11:35] Rav : earlier it was termed high beta eith 5-10-20% freeze but after f&o introduction contained and limited with VIX Futures also
[11:39] Rav : if there is no volatility, options will become untouchable in exchange
[11:46] RK : http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/todays-paper/tp-investmentworld/what-the-putcall-ratio-signals/article1113606.ece
[11:47] r m : Thanks RK
[11:47] RK : Welcome
[11:47] r m : However, history suggests that options traders lose money most of the times. Their collective judgement of market direction is usually wrong. 🙂
[11:48] r m : from that post only!
[11:48] r m : they should have written ‘option buyers’ instead of ‘option traders’
[11:48] RK : that entire article become null and void when you read last para 🙂
[11:49] r m : lol
[11:49] Rav : option writers are FIIs and professionals
[11:49] r m : yes
[11:50] Keshav : okay finally some movement
[11:50] RK : yes..fixed kind of income but no limitation on the investment capital 🙂
[11:50] r m : Keshav’s shorts have made nifty go down!
[11:50] RK : we always think vice versa..limited capital but unlimited income 🙂
[11:50] Keshav : no no i had it in almost 2 hours back i guess
[11:50] Keshav : @rm should check with janak
[11:50] r m : yes Keshav, you are a patient bird!
[11:51] Keshav : i trade small
[11:51] Rav : timing is important
[11:51] r m : @RK, actually the returns on investments are much lower for very high capital!
[11:52] Keshav : to avoid emotions
[11:52] Keshav : yes that what i have realised
[11:52] RK : true RM..but what I mean to say, you will have atlease some income when you play with no barrier for investment
[11:52] Rav : writing need full margin like nifty future but buying needs only premium
[11:52] r m : yes
[11:52] Keshav : wealth managers happy even if they clock 25%
[11:53] r m : true
[11:54] r m : Biggies have huge portfolios, normally that is used as a margin for shorting options, double income, one from PF another from premium decay!
[11:54] Rav : welath management guys first take care of them and then customers!
[11:54] r m : lol
[11:54] r m : huge salaries are taken by the management
[11:54] Rav : perks and cars too
[11:55] r m : then they invest your PF in their own half brained schemes!
[11:55] RK : admin cost are huge with indian fund houses
[11:56] r m : ICICIDirect will invest half your funds in ICICI mutual funds specially new launchs since entry fee permitted only on NFOs
[12:09] Rav : Change in OI 19000ce 30725 17000 pe 63050
[12:10] Rav : bnf is up as per option
[12:27] Keshav : bnf fighting nf
[12:44] r m : 8286 was the pullback high on 26th http://screencast.com/t/z2FQdv7lO
[12:47] Keshav : closing short and goinig long
[12:48] r m : ok
[12:48] Rav : bnf long at 18632
[12:49] Rav : 12:10 Rav : bnf is up as per option
[13:03] Keshav : lunch time
[13:03] r m : BNF above IBH
[13:05] Keshav : yesterdays vwap the key reference
[13:06] r m : BNF is above tha
[13:06] r m : *that
[13:07] Keshav : huge volumes came in last 3 minutes
[13:07] Keshav : bnf
[13:07] Keshav : todays highest
[13:07] r m : yes
[13:07] Keshav : hopefully its buyers
[13:07] Keshav : @rm is there a way to find it
[13:08] Keshav : ??
[13:08] Keshav : whether they are buyers or sellers at the top?
[13:08] Rav : 18770 booked
[13:09] r m : @Keshav, 18743.65 17675 vol at ask
[13:09] r m : but these things are not accurate
[13:09] r m : @Rav, congrats, great spotting on BNF
[13:10] Keshav : oh
[13:10] Keshav : good trade @rav
[13:10] Rav : in ami,we can see volume for each minute and with given afl,we can detect in candle itself
[13:11] r m : NF was showing 40900 vol @ 8283 at bid, yet that was the lowest point!
[13:11] r m : OK Rav, are you using GDFL data?
[13:11] Rav : bnf last 4 candles of 5 min were with heavy volume
[13:12] Rav : yes
[13:12] r m : Thanks
[13:12] Rav : 8400ce buying happening
[13:13] Keshav : @rav how to indentify if its buying or selling
[13:13] Keshav : ?
[13:13] Keshav : 8400 ce context
[13:14] r m : OI and price both going up I guess
[13:14] Keshav : oh
[13:17] r m : BNF knocking at Hypo1 entry level
[13:19] Rav : OTM CE is at 2 disgits and less vulnerable for volatility
[13:22] Keshav : i think this small rally only bank participated
[13:22] Keshav : book long nf
[13:22] Keshav : no position
[13:27] Keshav : is there way to hide your position in the orderbook?
[13:28] Keshav : show it as a small quantity?
[13:29] r m : yes, you can show minimum 10% as disclosed quantity
[13:30] Keshav : how to do that? i am having a pay per trade brokerage. if i say buy 250 units of option
[13:30] Keshav : it gets split into 3-4 trades
[13:31] Keshav : i would like to get it cleared as a single order
[13:31] Keshav : when i look at the order book there is enough on the ask side though
[13:32] r m : what we see in the order book is not instantaneou and market orders are not seen in order book
[13:33] Keshav : okay
[13:33] r m : get a pay per order deal rather than pay per trade 🙂
[13:34] Keshav : any brokerage offering pay per order?
[13:34] r m : Zerodha
[13:35] Keshav : so irrespective of the no of trades they charge only on the order size once?
[13:36] r m : yeah, they charge by order number which remains the same
[13:36] r m : they have some other criteria for bracket orders – I did not read that
[13:36] Keshav : okay
[13:49] Keshav : price structure wise we need to break 8250 spot in nifty
[13:49] Keshav : for any further upthrust
[13:49] Keshav : till then weakness could be expected
[13:53] r m : bnf wants to explore beyond 795 now
[14:01] Rav : bnf sd3 band at 90 degrees
[14:14] Keshav : lunch done
[14:19] Rav : ready but nifty is keepping me in
[14:20] Keshav : short bnf
[14:33] Keshav : short covered
[14:38] Keshav : @rav
[14:38] Keshav : 8200 pcr is 3.7?
[14:46] Keshav : i guess everyones gone for lunch
[14:46] Rav : yes
[14:47] Keshav : trading room sjo silent
[14:47] r m : silence of the lambs 🙂
[14:48] Keshav : this could work as a title for a book or a movie
[14:48] r m : it is a title of a famous movie
[14:48] Keshav : oh
[14:48] Keshav : i ll check it out then
[14:48] Rav : keshav…is that excel sheet sent working?
[14:48] Rav : won several oscar awards
[14:49] Keshav : i am trying it for the first time
[14:49] r m : Anthony Hopkings
[14:49] Keshav : oh
[14:49] r m : Hopkins
[14:49] Keshav : @rav could you confirm the pcr @ 8200
[14:49] Rav : 3.7
[14:50] Keshav : okay then its updating roo
[14:50] Keshav : too
[14:50] Keshav : @ rm i will check that movie
[14:50] Keshav : and if i catch hold of a good 1080p print i ll mail you the link too
[14:50] Rav : 3.7 8.8 3.7 1.2 for 8000-8300
[14:50] r m : sure, you will get an excellent torrent I am sure
[14:51] Rav : FIIs bought protective puts so that our local operators can not pull down nifty it seems
[14:52] r m : @Keshav http://kickass.so/the-silence-of-the-lambs-1991-1080p-bdrip-x264-1-50gb-yify-t6580563.html
[14:52] Keshav : added to my downloads thanks rm
[14:52] r m : they bought yesterday and on Friday too
[14:53] r m : welcome Keshav
[14:54] Rav : Change in OI 8200 ce419275 8400pe 601200
[14:54] Rav : nifty up
[14:55] Rav : 8300 ce and 8200 pe
[14:55] Rav : is correct
[14:55] Kathir : @rm back
[14:55] Kathir : late 🙂
[14:55] Keshav : seems like one more move up left in nifty
[14:56] Kathir : traffic in blore is terrific..hate driving here
[14:56] Keshav : from the swing high we are riding on a paratllel sideway channel
[14:56] Keshav : yes too bad. small city
[14:56] Rav : this is the time for exchange and fiis to be active besides brokers
[14:57] Kathir : @rav volume today very ow
[14:57] Keshav : @rav exchange>
[14:57] Keshav : ?
[14:57] Keshav : but i love food in bangalore
[14:57] Keshav : so nice
[14:58] Keshav : everything so fresh
[14:58] Kathir : food mixed all state food available
[14:58] Keshav : like mumbai
[14:58] Kathir : ok
[14:58] Keshav : i find south indian best in bangalore
[14:59] r m : yes
[15:00] Keshav : in chennai supplies are not that fresh
[15:00] r m : I used to eat all the time when in South!
[15:01] r m : North Indian food good at home only, what the cook in restaurants is not the local north indian food but a greasy overcooked version
[15:01] Keshav : true
[15:02] Keshav : north indian food is highly commercialised
[15:02] r m : yeah, what is surprising is that youngsters like that and are getting fat on that fried stuff!
[15:03] Keshav : too much of experimentation and evolution
[15:03] r m : Obesity in young folks was unknown when I was in College
[15:03] r m : most of us were wafer thin 😀
[15:03] Keshav : these days that what i pray god
[15:04] Keshav : dont become obese
[15:04] Keshav : its because of the sugar not much on oil
[15:04] Keshav : those days i suppose people took less sugar in their food
[15:04] Keshav : and most of the food was cooked fresh
[15:05] Keshav : when i stayed outside in delhi . i feeded only on outside food and packed foods
[15:05] r m : no, we hogged sweats but plenty of physical work was a must for remaining alive 🙂
[15:05] r m : sweets
[15:05] Keshav : something went wrong and i had indigestion for months
[15:06] Keshav : then i came back home
[15:06] r m : everyone used to walk or bicycle to college, some 1000 calories gone there!
[15:06] Keshav : learnt a bit of cooking and started cooking myself
[15:06] r m : good
[15:06] Keshav : understandable
[15:06] Keshav : wish we could go back that time
[15:06] r m : cooking good food is very simple, just takes some time
[15:06] Keshav : back to bicycles
[15:07] Keshav : i just hate traffic
[15:07] r m : @Keshav, since Metro introduced in Delhi, many folks are walking the short distances from metro stn to home/office
[15:07] Keshav : love public transport
[15:08] r m : we need reserve bicycle tracks
[15:08] Keshav : yes before that chandni chowk and old delhi used to be chaotic
[15:08] Keshav : yes
[15:08] r m : hope Modi’s smart cities have those tracks
[15:09] Keshav : hmm
[15:10] Keshav : i would be happy if they have a entrepreneurship incubation centre in every university if not college
[15:11] r m : yes, much more needed than campus recruitmets
[15:11] Keshav : i and some of my friends we started a online business. we closed with net loss of 2 lakhs
[15:12] Keshav : we were totally clueless with some of regulations and registration
[15:12] Keshav : and documentation work was crazy
[15:12] Keshav : everytime we had a pay someone to get the work done
[15:12] r m : yes
[15:13] r m : if you are a businessman every government employee is out to fleece you
[15:13] r m : they think business is a money priniting machine 😀
[15:13] Keshav : although we guys had really good education we couldnt even get through an application without the help of those document guy sitting in the office gate
[15:14] r m : lol
[15:14] Keshav : long nf positional
[15:15] r m : no sellers found below PDL on second visit too
[15:15] r m : BNF kept auctioning above SL 18720 of Hypo1
[15:16] Keshav : might work for another 40 points in nf
[15:16] r m : Govt documentation assumes that every citizen is a thief and a crook and onus to prove otherwise is on him 🙂
[15:17] r m : just reverse of our penal system!
[15:21] Rav : 8400ce 80 is now at 91
[15:23] Keshav : seems like we would close at high in bnf
[15:27] Keshav : tomorrow morning we gonna need some quick hands
[15:29] Rav : 8400ce booked at 94 with nf 8328
[15:30] r m : great!
[15:30] Rav : bye all
[15:30] Keshav : the markets closed
[15:31] r m : Thanks and bye folks! Shai is likely to be totally busy celebrating tomorrow and day after, may not get hypo too!
[15:31] Keshav : good day
[15:31] Keshav : oh okay
[15:31] Keshav : bye all